I Had A GREAT Time at the Klemmers and Associates Advanced Leadership Workshop

I survived the week at the Klemmer and Associates Advanced Leadership Workshop and I registered for the Heart of the Samurai event in 2008. What a fabulous event this was and I met so many great people from all walks of life. It was truly an enriching experience.

For the Internet haters who say Klemmer is a cult, I say they’re total morons.

Something that I notice when I run into someone that claims Klemmer is a cult, is that they are totally unable to define the attributes of a cult.

This is kind of like pointing at a dog and declaring in a loud voice, “that’s a nice duck you have there.”

Don’t get me wrong, if someone doesn’t understand something and says “hey, I don’t know what you’re doing with these people and I’d like to know more,” that’s fine. I’m talking about people who make self-righteous pronouncements about anything in total ignorance.

I’ll be interested to see how some of my other friends go through this when they attend in the coming months. The senior Pastor from my church is even going in March. That should be a hoot.

Back on the subject of Klemmer being a cult: I did some research on cults to see why anyone would think Klemmer and Associates is a cult.

Here’s a great list of parameters I found regarding personal abuses and cults.

Absolutely none of this happens at any of the Klemmer and Associates workshops.

List of attributes for a cult

1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY They adopt a “groupness” mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. ABUSE OF FINANCES Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

4. “US VERSUS THEM” MENTALITY Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as “of the devil” or “unenlightened” etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media – the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a “means to an end”.

5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their “will” actually becomes the groups “will” without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of “guilt”.

It’s hard for me not to laugh transcribing this list.

Absolutely none of this happens at any of the Klemmer and Associates workshops.

In fact, looking at this list, I would say that most of what a person experiences at Klemmer reinforces the exact opposite of all these things.

It really is absurd to give this topic any more consideration.

If you’re researching this issue for a “friend” I think the question isn’t “is Klemmer and Associates a Cult” but rather “why do you think it is?” The answer is probably more a reflection of how you see the world than any “reality” you can come up with.

41 Comments

  1. spenceCan on August 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. I have been through a couple of the Klemmer workshops and have very much been rubbed the wrong way.

    Though they would not be a ‘cult’ per se, they use a lot of cult tactics and it all fits into what is called ‘large group awareness training’. I won’t get into lgats since you can google it and find SOOO much more info.

    Members of cults (be in a religious cult, a business cult, etc…) never think they are in a cult, they take it for granted that the group they are in is merely misunderstood and that said group has a new truth that they want everyone to be enlightened to. In Klemmer’s case, this ‘truth’ is very similar to new age philosophy. Check out Dianetics….it is very similar teaching, and is something that many would consider a cult 🙂

    I could address each of your points about what defines a cult, because sadly reading it over I saw a lot of Klemmer in there. People who join become believers, I have friends who have poured in 20+ thousand dollars to go through all the courses…what do they have to show for it? They’re gung ho about taking action and responsibility when talking to people, even though they aren’t so themselves – but they sure are good at getting others to sign up to the course!!!
    1. They certainly discourage dissent, any dissenting opinions are quickly quashed and you are told to accept what they say and what they teach. Otherwise you won’t get the fullest of the experience. You’re free to leave and get a refund, but if you want a large change in a small period of time, you have to do exactly as told
    2. You are forced to give utmost intimate details to people you don’t know….though this is not directly abuse of intimacy, it is certainly trusting someone you have no reason to trust, who is under no fiduciary responsibility to keep that trust. I remember sitting across from a married woman as she cried and told me her deepest and darkest demons and secrets and it occured to me right then how I could use that information to take advantage of her. I didn’t, but out of the thousands of people who go through the same experience as that, I bet some do – this is a huge abuse of intimacy and is shameful
    3. Though they don’t require you to give all of your money, the pinnacle of the course, when you are feeling the MOST vulnerable….they pitch the next course and tell you it will change your life. Not only that, but if you can’t afford the next course, even more reason to sign up!…..that is abuse of finances my friend
    4. I’ve read about couples being torn apart because one member went through the courses and not the other. Not to mention all the Klemmer speak

    5. I’ll bet after 5 12 hours days you were mentally and physically exhausted 🙂

    6. I remember in the first Klemmer they had some simple rules you had to obey. Being in on time, no drinks, no pee breaks, no talking about the course…simple rules that really don’t make any sense, but is the first subtle step of making people stop being critical thinkers. Once you obey them on the small insignificant stuff, you’re more likely to just accept what they tell you next time.

    You laugh when people draw the parallel to a cult – but it is my opinion that you are the one who is misinformed. If you want to read more about LGATs, check out the following site
    http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:iVdTFixd1iwJ:pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/+lgat+klemmer&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

    • Dave Saunders on August 18, 2009 at 11:07 am

      LOL When did you attend a Klemmer event that said you couldn’t take a “pee break”? They operate under no such “rule.”

      • Anonymous on March 15, 2010 at 4:47 pm

        In my course – you weren’t allowed. They made it quite clear when I did go that I was not to go again because “I was distracting the others and taking away from their 10000$ course”

        I also wasn’t allowed to drink water

        I also can’t help but notice you dismiss my entire post by addressing one issue, not the rest

  2. AntiKlemmer on November 5, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Dave it is funny how the only thing you remarked on spenceCan’s remarks was the part about “Pee Break”. They don’t have pee breaks established in seminars. They do say when asked, and at times mention how you need to be adults and use the facilities as needed. However no “potty” breaks are scheduled.

    By the way, I have gone through all the seminars and they are a lot of hype that do not work out in a relationally healthy manner. There are many who will acknowledge these fact that are censored by those who are brain washed by Klemmer and kept from sharing and are discounted in their sharing.

    Klemmer creates extremely narcissistic people who view the world from a humanistic, and hedonistic viewpoint.

    Klemmer takes advantage of people who are self absorbed and emotionally unhealthy in the first place. Yes, I am saying this from the viewpoint of someone who has gone through and experienced all that Klemmer has to offer.

    It has been a couple of years since I have gone through it, and I have had to face all these ugly aspects within myself.

    Bottom line: An emotionally healthy person who has good relationships steers clear of such garbage as Klemmer, and they stay away from people who are like Klemmer as well.

    Klemmer creates emotionally unhealthy and extremely relationally destructive “PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEARNED THE FINE ART OF BEING NICE ABOUT IT.”

    • Dave Saunders on November 8, 2009 at 11:45 am

      That’s probably because it’s not worth my time to refute such silly rhetoric. This is my blog and I shared a personal opinion. I had a great time. If someone else doesn’t want to go, great. However I don’t pass off made up details as “facts” which some other people have done online. I don’t think this or any other personal development program is “for everyone.” However, I don’t have time to yammer on with people who don’t know the difference between an opinion and a fact. I have things to do.

      Any abusive, or off-topic, comments left on this blog will be registered as spammers with the Akismet network. Take care.

  3. AntiKlemmer on November 22, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    Let me get this straight, I am hearing you say in response to the anti-Klemmer remarks made by the two of us on your blog. Only positive comments or opinions about Klemmer will be allowed on your blog. Anyone who has gone to Klemmer and has experienced anything negative with them will be considered abusive, and off-topic? That is a very typical Klemmer brain washed response.

    If you don’t want other opinions shared, or if you can’t handle an opposing opinion shared about Klemmer on you blog. You may consider not having be a blog that others can comment on.

    If your going to censor your blog? Go all the way and make it be one that can’t be commented upon.

    Just a thought Dave. Take care.

    • Dave Saunders on November 23, 2009 at 1:46 pm

      Clearly that is not the case. I haven’t deleted any negative comments. I said abusive posts will be deleted.

    • Dave Saunders on March 9, 2010 at 2:43 am

      There is zero evidence that anything has been censored on this blog.

  4. Sylvia on November 25, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Hi Dave,
    After reading all this stuff (besides I don’t believe everything I read) I am looking forward to my weekend workshop with Klemmer…. If I have to go to the washroom, I will go. If I have to get up and stretch my legs, I will. No one is ever forced to give intimate details about their lives (unless your talking to your therapist). When you are grounded in Christ, all things are possible.

    • Dave Saunders on November 26, 2009 at 10:43 am

      Hey Sylvia,

      Yes, it’s an absurd claim that you’re not allowed to go to the bathroom.

      Have a great time!

  5. AntiKlemmer on November 26, 2009 at 1:12 am

    beware sylvia after the personal mastery seminar there is a slow slide towards humanism in the rest of the seminars that end in Samurai Camp where it really gets into the thick of humanistic application in your life.

    Personal Mastery seminar is where the Christian foundation is strong and then there is a slow erosion after.

    I am a believer as well, and wish to God I did not get involved in Klemmer as it is a sheep in wolves clothing so speak.

    • Dave Saunders on November 26, 2009 at 10:46 am

      I suppose it’s true that some people lack the gift of spiritual discernment and will eat the bones along with the meat. Others have the capacity to use what works for them and leave the rest on the plate.

  6. AntiKlemmer on November 26, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Dave time will tell what you do, and don’t do.

  7. AntiKlemmer on November 26, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Actually, if Klemmer was all that they say they are. Which I was brainwashed to believe as I wasted over 10 thousand dollars for myself and another 10 grand on my ex-wife to have two complete opposite coaching influences upon us as we went through different seminars as my coach who was a strong Christian along with my team in Sam Camp encouraged me to stay married to a woman who I should never have remarried as a result of setting a goal of remarrying her after an ugly marriage to her a failed first time around after going to Personal Mastery and was encouraged to set a goal of remarriage to my ex-wife. Well, I got remarried and then she went through seminars on my dime and then in Sam Camp got a a coach with a very strong humanistic mindset and team who encouraged my ex-wife to seek her own greatness at my expense by discarding our marriage as a way to accept her greatness. Klemmer speaks of leaving no one behind. My ex-wifes acceptance has her footprints embedded in my back as she chose to put her needs above our marriage needs and follow through on her commitment to go to marriage counseling that her Sam Camp team and coach encouraged her to break her promise and commitment she gave me before she went to Sam Camp where our marriage was trashed by her being coached and encouraged by her team to discard as she focused on her greatness.

    God was not allowed to move or work in our marriage. Thanks to Klemmer and Sam Camp’s humanistic approach to marriages in crisis.

    You say God is in Klemmer? I say He is not, and I have the experience of Him not being allowed to be as well.

  8. AntiKlemmer on November 26, 2009 at 1:58 am

    Dave, Sorry for posting so much on your blog. My experience with Klemmer was a whirlwind ride for over two years. Now I have been out of it for a couple of years, and am able to look back with 20/20. There is much harm that Klemmer does in peoples lives. I can share more if you like. I have had to work through a lot emotionally since my ordeal with them. I have discovered some very solid ground to stand on emotionally, and I believe is very solid for anyone to stand upon as well. Klemmer glitters at first, and then it turns ugly as you look at it under a critical thinking microscope using sound and true wisdom to look at the philosophy of Klemmer. There is a lot wrong with it, and it needs to be looked at from a much broader picture and kept in mind with a lot of other facts, and age old wisdom.

    If Klemmer was all that it says it is? It’s impact would be so much bigger of an impact than it is in our world. The law of multiplication would create this as you look at how long Klemmer has been doing seminars, and how few seminars there are going on today says more than anything else. Klemmer is a scam, and sham as well.

    This is one of many facts that can be looked at as proof of the lies stated by Klemmer.

    The reason why Klemmer is only the size it is at present day is proof of how their philosophy is flawed and is based a scam.

    Bottom line: Based on the time Klemmer has been having seminars, and how many they have each year. The simple math would make their popularity be so exploding across the nation and world that you could not but know of how great they supposedly are as a company.

    The simple fact that this is not the case is proof of how Klemmer is not all that they say they are. It really is that simple.

    Do the math. Use your critical thinking and see the truth.

    Klemmer promotes themselves with puffed up and over inflated hype to sell their seminars. There popularity, or should I say lack of popularity across the nation and world shows this clearly.

    open your eyes and see what the world feels about Klemmer based on results. Like Brian Klemmer says, Results. Often harsh but always fair.

    Based on results alone. Klemmer is a flash in the pan that fizzles after it has be digested in peoples lives a couple years past the flash in the pan seminars are over.

  9. AntiKlemmer on November 27, 2009 at 2:45 am

    That is a very arrogant statement Dave. What goes around comes around. The rhetoric of people who are brain washed by Klemmer is amazing how they think they are so wise, and yet their critical thinking has been turned off in their heads with Klemmer as they ride an emotional high that occurs in these seminars.

    Signing off, as it is obvious how much delusion you have being a newbie to Klemmer and all.

    I am quite sure you will come back with some form of dismissal of my comments and continue on with thinking your all that in your moral superior attitude, and ability to stay out of what you are calling eating the bones as you put it.

    Good luck with your arrogant delusion. I am quite sure this will be seen as an abusive post by you and be deleted anyways. Truth is abrupt to some, and taken as abusive by others who don’t want to hear it.

    • Dave Saunders on November 27, 2009 at 4:58 pm

      I take that from scripture so I guess blame the source.

      Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

      Hebrews 5:13-14

      “Meat eaters” know bones from meat.

  10. AntiKlemmer on November 28, 2009 at 4:07 am

    Dave, If you are so enlightened by God and scripture? Why are you needing embrace Klemmer and it’s humanistic philosophy with it’s hedonistic pursuits in addition to your Christianity.

    Seems to me there is a difference between what you are calling a meat eater as someone who has the ability to distinguish good from evil, to a connoisseur of the word (that you are choosing to be) as you want to pick and choose what sounds good to your ears, and embrace such a messed up philosophy of a company says one thing and does another. A company who encourages divorce, and many other relationally destructive behavior and declares it as accepting your greatness. Only problem with this approach is how it is done in a manner of ramming it down another persons throat relationally speaking. Many of the Non-Klemmer, as well as Klemmer spouses do not want a divorce and want to work out the marriage issues. I know I did with my ex-wife, and yet Klemmer encouraged her to accept her greatness at the price of our marriage.

    If you are a Christian, and you believe in God. You know very well that God doesn’t like divorce, and he doesn’t go around telling people to divorce either.

    He encourages marriages to be worked out relationally, and to give up accepting your greatness at the expense of your spouse. He actually speaks of laying down your life/greatness for your spouse. Both spouses for that matter.

    Dave. Stop taking scripture out of context, and using it to satisfy your selfish desires and ambitions by manipulating scripture and its meaning.

    Klemmer is about the pursuit of money. Bottom line, and scripture is clear about where your treasure is. There your heart will also be. Also, the love of money is the root of all evil.

    Having money is not the problem. It is when money has you that creates the problem.

    I have staffed Personal Mastery seminars with Brian Miller, and I staffed Heart of a Samurai as well. I am a graduate of Klemmer and Associates Seminars. I started in 2005 and finished in 2006 all 4 levels of Seminars.

    While there is a lot of good in each one of these seminars that I am willing to admit is in each of them. I however, have a much bigger picture after going through them all, and staffing many as well.

    You have come across as a Christian Dave. I am one as well. So let me talk to you in Christian terms, and biblical terminology. The bible talks about the enemy coming in the end times in such a manner as almost deceiving even the elect. Are you recalling the scripture? I can post the reference if needed.

    I have found Brian Klemmer and his company to be the very representation of this verse and how it leads people down a path that appears Godly, yet it is deceptive and leaves a person with themselves on the very throne of our lives that are God desires to be on. Klemmer leaves a person with his focus on his own greatness versus Gods. How so? By blinding them with a deceptive focus on money as judgment is condemned. Having a judgment is very healthy as it guards our hearts from deception. Being judgmental is what God condemns as bad. This is placing motive and intention on others behavior and not being open to being wrong about it. Which is what Klemmer’s seminar facilitator’s do in every seminar as people share and then the facilitator states the motive and intention behind behavior in such a manner that you can’t refute them. Kinda like a card trick I know where you manipulate a person to say a certain card in such a manner they believe they picked it. All the while not realizing the manipulation that was done.

    Hindsight as I look back over the years to when I first began my Klemmer journey after being wowed by how I played the red/black game in Personal Mastery, and how I worked through my judgment of my buddy in Advance, to how I played Life boat in Heart of a Samurai, and then how I chose to make having a level 10 marriage with my ex-wife be my number one goal in Sam Camp. Along with my Ex-wife and her journey through the seminars as well.

    The glitter wore off, and the sham of it all came clear. The hype and promises all fizzled as Christianity collided with Humanism and Hedonism wrapped in Klemmers philosophy.

    The Cross of Jesus Christ, and His judgment of sin collides with Klemmer and its philosophy.

    You may not see it now. In time, in time. Wait and see. God brings all things into Judgment and He balances all scales.

    • Dave Saunders on November 30, 2009 at 5:09 pm

      the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

  11. AntiKlemmer on November 30, 2009 at 3:49 am

    Dave,

    I reread the posts on this page. I still can’t believe how you chose to focus on the pee break aspect.

    Especially when Klemmer doesn’t schedule them in there seminar format, and even though they declare to the participants to be adults and to simply go the the bathroom as needed during the seminar.

    The point that was made in the posts you chose to make fun of on this page was simply. “no pee breaks are scheduled in the seminars.” Which is a fact.

    At the same time, participants are expected to take care of themselves as well by getting up and going when needed.

    So how about facing the reality of what has been stated on your blog by spenceCan as the truth and actually a correct assessment of how the seminars run in regard to what is scheduled and not scheduled as far as breaks go.

    Actually, I think the bigger benefit of focusing on this point as you have made a joke in what seems to me as a deflection off the main topic and points made in exposing Klemmer as a scam.

    It is a good way to deflect the attention of the solid points points shared by spenceCan in the posts made on this page.

    spenceCan obviously has not gone through all of Klemmer’s seminars, nor have you Dave.

    Thanks for having this blog available for spenceCan and me to share our posts as well.

    I really appreciate people like you who are willing to let their blog be available for both positive and negative posts to be made about Klemmer as a way to let people read both sides of the coin and make their own decisions about what to do, or not do.

    It is hard to find a place on the internet that Klemmer and it’s followers do not censor the negative posts made about them. I am sure in time that this blog page will be censored as well by either you, or those associated with Klemmer.

    I have seen it many times the past couple of years. A negative post on a website is posted about Klemmer, and it is viewable for a short period of time. Then I link it to show others about what is being said negatively about Klemmer. Then within a short period of time the link fails to work, and the negative post has vanished in internet searches.

    It has happened to many times over the past couple of years to be a coincidence. Someone is removing the ability to find these negative posts and I am not sure who they are. The only people who would benefit from these negative posts being removed is Klemmer.

    I can’t prove it is Klemmer that is doing this. However the amount of times it has occurred over the past few years is very hard not to consider this possibility.

    Yes, I spend a lot of time trying to expose Klemmer as a scam. Because the destruction this philosophy created in my life was so bad, and I have a passion to help stop people from making the same mistakes as me with going to Klemmer.

    It is not about Klemmer being 100 percent wrong in what they do. It is about them being 90 percent right and the 10 percent they are wrong is so destructive in a very covert manner in a persons life that it you don’t even see it as you are blinded by the 90 percent and ignoring the 10 percent part.

    I will check back from time to time on your blog Dave. I have shared more than I planned on your blog. However, I do appreciate the ability to have our debate that exposes Klemmer as I have been allowed to do on your blog. For that I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Keep up the debate as it allows for more truth about Klemmer to be shared on here as people are allowed to oppose your positive posts only about a company who has much negative in it’s impact on people’s lives. However, not many venues to express it to others.

    Thank you for this venue to expose Klemmer. I say it again. Thanks a bunch.

    • Dave Saunders on November 30, 2009 at 5:06 pm

      I’m amazed how much time you spend coming back to this page.

  12. AntiKlemmer on December 5, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Dave,

    Like I said, it is hard to find a place on the internet where negative comments about Klemmer are allowed to remain. For some odd reason the negative comments get removed and blocked for some unknown reason.

    You amaze me as well as you keep using scripture in a very inappr0piate manner to justify yourself, and Klemmer. Yet, I guess there should be no surprise over your misuse of scripture as you are embracing Klemmer and it’s philosophy.

    Which clearly demonstrates how you choose to see God as a some magical gumball machine you put a quarter in and get your favorite bubble gum from.

    How about taking a good hard look at how you have allowed humanism and hedonism to become your god in your life Dave? And stop making excuses for it and claiming your so called Christianity to everyone.

    Christianity is centered on Christ and the cross, and not you and your pleasures.

  13. AntiKlemmer on December 5, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Dave,

    By the way you have forgotten to mention or look at how scripture is not only focused on positive. It is also focused on negative.

    JUDGEMENT and DISCERNMENT are also mentioned a lot in scripture and we are encouraged to use these in our walk in a fallen world as well.

    Stop being such a connoisseur of God’s word, it really is nauseating to have someone misuse the Word of God so much as you are doing.

    There is a balance in the Bible and you are tipping the scale by only keeping your view on just the positive.

    There is a God, and there is a devil in the world. That means there is both good and evil present. Not just good as you seem to want to look at.

    There needs to be balance with both in our perspectives on life. That is where discernment comes into play, and keeps us out of such destructive and harmful philosophies like Klemmer, who use psycho-dynamic therapy in their seminars. While claiming they do not use psychological methods in them. Yet if you did the research and looked at what they use? It is very psychological and that means it can be very psychologically damaging to those who participate. It does cause great harm in it, and Klemmer likes to create these environments where they get to take the credit for the positive and good results while denying responsibility for the negative and bad results.

    Well, I agree they should take credit for the results they create in their participants lives. Both the good and bad.

    Yet, just as you seem to want to be a connoisseur of of scripture? I can understand how you want to be one as well with Klemmer and what they create in peoples lives as well.

    What a crock of …

  14. AntiKlemmer on December 5, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Continue to be amazed. As long as people can read these posts, and hear the whole truth. Not just the positive censored garbage out there. I will keep coming here and utilizing your blog you have created and at present are not censoring posts.

    However, I keep expecting you censorship at which time I will stop coming here.

    • Ricobebad on October 13, 2010 at 8:27 pm

      The truth according to Brian Klemmer

      • Dave Saunders on October 14, 2010 at 2:19 pm

        vs the “truth” of someone who doesn’t use his or her real name.

        LOL

  15. brianwasher on January 22, 2010 at 2:16 am

    Dear Dave,

    I find your blog very educational and all the negavitve stuff people have posted about this Klemmer workshop is funny. Sounds like they have some emotional bagage and need a therpaist not a workshop and were very angery when the workshop did not magiacally alter their lives. I think I will sign up for it now and if need be pee on the floor so I don't miss out on any of my “brainwashing” I hope the Koolaid is good..LOL

    • Dave Saunders on January 22, 2010 at 2:24 am

      LOL yeah, it's interesting how emotional some people can get because someone else said they had a good time.

      Whether it's these guys or the dozen other similar programs out there, your mileage may vary but I think ultimately the experience you have is up to you.

  16. Tom on February 11, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    I've been to their opening course and loved it. i'm going to the advanced leadership course in april. this was good to know, because some of my friends have raised the argument that klemmer is a cult.

    thanks.

    • Ricobebad on October 13, 2010 at 8:26 pm

      You are a fool keep wasting your money

  17. Ricobebad on October 13, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Klemmer wants your money and nothing more. He fired my brother (a partner) and now has to pay him in spite of that fact. Pay people pay

  18. KlemmerIsAScam on March 5, 2011 at 9:00 am

    I had a friend get involved with Klemmer, and began to adopt nearly every cult quality 1-6 you have in your list. What is the reason those workshops are so expensive? Money money money. All they want is your money. It’s a joke.

    • Dave Saunders on March 6, 2011 at 3:42 pm

      So a person began to adopt six qualities which are listed as group elements? A person is a group? Might need some meds for that.

  19. Urfriend_4life on October 24, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    are you willing to testify in court that it is not a cult? Investigations are underway……..

    • Dave Saunders on October 27, 2011 at 4:58 pm

      LOL! An investigation of what, specifically and an investigation of whom?

      • Urfriend_4Life on October 27, 2017 at 6:31 pm

        FAMILIES AGAINST CULT TACTICS just initiated an investigation on PSI Seminars – the Personal Mastery Daddy for Klemmer and Associates. Next => Klemmer and Associates?

  20. SaundersCult on February 21, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Dave Saunders, did you bow to Brian Klemmer and Patric Dean at HEart of the samurai to get your samurai sword? Did you listen for hours about other products to enhance your wealth conciousness ( you bought them didnt you ?) did you dontate money to foundations? were you asked to promote personal mastery so you can be a leader? thats financial abuse and cult enrollment..go back to SEO, I hope you are good at it

  21. Daveisaculthead on February 21, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    by the way Dave saunders…you attitude and defensiveness sounds like an “us vs them” mentality. Getting students charged up and asking them to pay more is financial abuse for stuff they dont need. Can you post VERIFIABLE results from the classes or you had a “good time” felt better about yourself??? pretty pathetic..better do more SEO to pay off that credit card debt….

  22. Cultstop on March 14, 2012 at 6:57 am

    abuse of individuality – all are expected to bow to receive the samurai sword at Klemmer and Associates Advance leadership, dissension or disagreement with the Klemmer and Associates recycled pop psychology is the fastest way to a refund, loyalty to a charismatic leader who stands on a box of tide while screaming at his top of lungs about sunglassess , filters and beliefs….

  23. Cultstop on March 14, 2012 at 7:00 am

    abuse of finances – high pressure cloaked under commitment to keep moving on, upgrading attend leadership…who in the world will follow these paper samurais? who in the world will listen to bible thumping christians afraid of their own shadows? Who has to be a samurai ( who is NOT a christian ) to BE someone? What in the world has happened to common sense?? Klemmer is a cult, dont be in denial and take a different point of view, and WE ARE BEING RESPONSIBLE CONSUMER ADVOCATES for overHYPED, overly simplistic, UNSUSTAINABLE pure energy HIGHS…like a street corner drug peddler….

  24. AntiKlemmerDude on February 5, 2017 at 3:03 pm

    I have a friend that has been attending Klemmer. She has become VERY narcissistic. Klemmer has taught her to look after herself and not care about real relationships. She is happy that she has a whole new set of Klemmer friends that will do absolutely ANYTHING for her. BS, not a single one has supported her in her business. I hate to watch her become so brainwashed. Klemmer fools people into thinking everyone is in it together. No, she is all alone. She can barely support herself yet keeps borrowing money to attend courses so she will become blessed with abundance. Total BS

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