I Had A GREAT Time at the Klemmers and Associates Advanced Leadership Workshop

Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. I have been through a couple of the Klemmer workshops and have very much been rubbed the wrong way.

Though they would not be a ‘cult’ per se, they use a lot of cult tactics and it all fits into what is called ‘large group awareness training’. I won’t get into lgats since you can google it and find SOOO much more info.

Members of cults (be in a religious cult, a business cult, etc…) never think they are in a cult, they take it for granted that the group they are in is merely misunderstood and that said group has a new truth that they want everyone to be enlightened to. In Klemmer’s case, this ‘truth’ is very similar to new age philosophy. Check out Dianetics….it is very similar teaching, and is something that many would consider a cult

I could address each of your points about what defines a cult, because sadly reading it over I saw a lot of Klemmer in there. People who join become believers, I have friends who have poured in 20+ thousand dollars to go through all the courses…what do they have to show for it? They’re gung ho about taking action and responsibility when talking to people, even though they aren’t so themselves – but they sure are good at getting others to sign up to the course!!!
1. They certainly discourage dissent, any dissenting opinions are quickly quashed and you are told to accept what they say and what they teach. Otherwise you won’t get the fullest of the experience. You’re free to leave and get a refund, but if you want a large change in a small period of time, you have to do exactly as told
2. You are forced to give utmost intimate details to people you don’t know….though this is not directly abuse of intimacy, it is certainly trusting someone you have no reason to trust, who is under no fiduciary responsibility to keep that trust. I remember sitting across from a married woman as she cried and told me her deepest and darkest demons and secrets and it occured to me right then how I could use that information to take advantage of her. I didn’t, but out of the thousands of people who go through the same experience as that, I bet some do – this is a huge abuse of intimacy and is shameful
3. Though they don’t require you to give all of your money, the pinnacle of the course, when you are feeling the MOST vulnerable….they pitch the next course and tell you it will change your life. Not only that, but if you can’t afford the next course, even more reason to sign up!…..that is abuse of finances my friend
4. I’ve read about couples being torn apart because one member went through the courses and not the other. Not to mention all the Klemmer speak

5. I’ll bet after 5 12 hours days you were mentally and physically exhausted

6. I remember in the first Klemmer they had some simple rules you had to obey. Being in on time, no drinks, no pee breaks, no talking about the course…simple rules that really don’t make any sense, but is the first subtle step of making people stop being critical thinkers. Once you obey them on the small insignificant stuff, you’re more likely to just accept what they tell you next time.

You laugh when people draw the parallel to a cult – but it is my opinion that you are the one who is misinformed. If you want to read more about LGATs, check out the following site
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:iVdTFixd1iwJ:pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/+lgat+klemmer&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Dave it is funny how the only thing you remarked on spenceCan’s remarks was the part about “Pee Break”. They don’t have pee breaks established in seminars. They do say when asked, and at times mention how you need to be adults and use the facilities as needed. However no “potty” breaks are scheduled.

By the way, I have gone through all the seminars and they are a lot of hype that do not work out in a relationally healthy manner. There are many who will acknowledge these fact that are censored by those who are brain washed by Klemmer and kept from sharing and are discounted in their sharing.

Klemmer creates extremely narcissistic people who view the world from a humanistic, and hedonistic viewpoint.

Klemmer takes advantage of people who are self absorbed and emotionally unhealthy in the first place. Yes, I am saying this from the viewpoint of someone who has gone through and experienced all that Klemmer has to offer.

It has been a couple of years since I have gone through it, and I have had to face all these ugly aspects within myself.

Bottom line: An emotionally healthy person who has good relationships steers clear of such garbage as Klemmer, and they stay away from people who are like Klemmer as well.

Klemmer creates emotionally unhealthy and extremely relationally destructive “PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEARNED THE FINE ART OF BEING NICE ABOUT IT.”

Let me get this straight, I am hearing you say in response to the anti-Klemmer remarks made by the two of us on your blog. Only positive comments or opinions about Klemmer will be allowed on your blog. Anyone who has gone to Klemmer and has experienced anything negative with them will be considered abusive, and off-topic? That is a very typical Klemmer brain washed response.

If you don’t want other opinions shared, or if you can’t handle an opposing opinion shared about Klemmer on you blog. You may consider not having be a blog that others can comment on.

If your going to censor your blog? Go all the way and make it be one that can’t be commented upon.

Just a thought Dave. Take care.

Hi Dave,
After reading all this stuff (besides I don’t believe everything I read) I am looking forward to my weekend workshop with Klemmer…. If I have to go to the washroom, I will go. If I have to get up and stretch my legs, I will. No one is ever forced to give intimate details about their lives (unless your talking to your therapist). When you are grounded in Christ, all things are possible.

Dave time will tell what you do, and don’t do.

Dave, Sorry for posting so much on your blog. My experience with Klemmer was a whirlwind ride for over two years. Now I have been out of it for a couple of years, and am able to look back with 20/20. There is much harm that Klemmer does in peoples lives. I can share more if you like. I have had to work through a lot emotionally since my ordeal with them. I have discovered some very solid ground to stand on emotionally, and I believe is very solid for anyone to stand upon as well. Klemmer glitters at first, and then it turns ugly as you look at it under a critical thinking microscope using sound and true wisdom to look at the philosophy of Klemmer. There is a lot wrong with it, and it needs to be looked at from a much broader picture and kept in mind with a lot of other facts, and age old wisdom.

If Klemmer was all that it says it is? It’s impact would be so much bigger of an impact than it is in our world. The law of multiplication would create this as you look at how long Klemmer has been doing seminars, and how few seminars there are going on today says more than anything else. Klemmer is a scam, and sham as well.

This is one of many facts that can be looked at as proof of the lies stated by Klemmer.

The reason why Klemmer is only the size it is at present day is proof of how their philosophy is flawed and is based a scam.

Bottom line: Based on the time Klemmer has been having seminars, and how many they have each year. The simple math would make their popularity be so exploding across the nation and world that you could not but know of how great they supposedly are as a company.

The simple fact that this is not the case is proof of how Klemmer is not all that they say they are. It really is that simple.

Do the math. Use your critical thinking and see the truth.

Klemmer promotes themselves with puffed up and over inflated hype to sell their seminars. There popularity, or should I say lack of popularity across the nation and world shows this clearly.

open your eyes and see what the world feels about Klemmer based on results. Like Brian Klemmer says, Results. Often harsh but always fair.

Based on results alone. Klemmer is a flash in the pan that fizzles after it has be digested in peoples lives a couple years past the flash in the pan seminars are over.

I suppose it’s true that some people lack the gift of spiritual discernment and will eat the bones along with the meat. Others have the capacity to use what works for them and leave the rest on the plate.

I take that from scripture so I guess blame the source.

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 5:13-14

“Meat eaters” know bones from meat.

Dave,

I reread the posts on this page. I still can’t believe how you chose to focus on the pee break aspect.

Especially when Klemmer doesn’t schedule them in there seminar format, and even though they declare to the participants to be adults and to simply go the the bathroom as needed during the seminar.

The point that was made in the posts you chose to make fun of on this page was simply. “no pee breaks are scheduled in the seminars.” Which is a fact.

At the same time, participants are expected to take care of themselves as well by getting up and going when needed.

So how about facing the reality of what has been stated on your blog by spenceCan as the truth and actually a correct assessment of how the seminars run in regard to what is scheduled and not scheduled as far as breaks go.

Actually, I think the bigger benefit of focusing on this point as you have made a joke in what seems to me as a deflection off the main topic and points made in exposing Klemmer as a scam.

It is a good way to deflect the attention of the solid points points shared by spenceCan in the posts made on this page.

spenceCan obviously has not gone through all of Klemmer’s seminars, nor have you Dave.

Thanks for having this blog available for spenceCan and me to share our posts as well.

I really appreciate people like you who are willing to let their blog be available for both positive and negative posts to be made about Klemmer as a way to let people read both sides of the coin and make their own decisions about what to do, or not do.

It is hard to find a place on the internet that Klemmer and it’s followers do not censor the negative posts made about them. I am sure in time that this blog page will be censored as well by either you, or those associated with Klemmer.

I have seen it many times the past couple of years. A negative post on a website is posted about Klemmer, and it is viewable for a short period of time. Then I link it to show others about what is being said negatively about Klemmer. Then within a short period of time the link fails to work, and the negative post has vanished in internet searches.

It has happened to many times over the past couple of years to be a coincidence. Someone is removing the ability to find these negative posts and I am not sure who they are. The only people who would benefit from these negative posts being removed is Klemmer.

I can’t prove it is Klemmer that is doing this. However the amount of times it has occurred over the past few years is very hard not to consider this possibility.

Yes, I spend a lot of time trying to expose Klemmer as a scam. Because the destruction this philosophy created in my life was so bad, and I have a passion to help stop people from making the same mistakes as me with going to Klemmer.

It is not about Klemmer being 100 percent wrong in what they do. It is about them being 90 percent right and the 10 percent they are wrong is so destructive in a very covert manner in a persons life that it you don’t even see it as you are blinded by the 90 percent and ignoring the 10 percent part.

I will check back from time to time on your blog Dave. I have shared more than I planned on your blog. However, I do appreciate the ability to have our debate that exposes Klemmer as I have been allowed to do on your blog. For that I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Keep up the debate as it allows for more truth about Klemmer to be shared on here as people are allowed to oppose your positive posts only about a company who has much negative in it’s impact on people’s lives. However, not many venues to express it to others.

Thank you for this venue to expose Klemmer. I say it again. Thanks a bunch.

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

Dave,

By the way you have forgotten to mention or look at how scripture is not only focused on positive. It is also focused on negative.

JUDGEMENT and DISCERNMENT are also mentioned a lot in scripture and we are encouraged to use these in our walk in a fallen world as well.

Stop being such a connoisseur of God’s word, it really is nauseating to have someone misuse the Word of God so much as you are doing.

There is a balance in the Bible and you are tipping the scale by only keeping your view on just the positive.

There is a God, and there is a devil in the world. That means there is both good and evil present. Not just good as you seem to want to look at.

There needs to be balance with both in our perspectives on life. That is where discernment comes into play, and keeps us out of such destructive and harmful philosophies like Klemmer, who use psycho-dynamic therapy in their seminars. While claiming they do not use psychological methods in them. Yet if you did the research and looked at what they use? It is very psychological and that means it can be very psychologically damaging to those who participate. It does cause great harm in it, and Klemmer likes to create these environments where they get to take the credit for the positive and good results while denying responsibility for the negative and bad results.

Well, I agree they should take credit for the results they create in their participants lives. Both the good and bad.

Yet, just as you seem to want to be a connoisseur of of scripture? I can understand how you want to be one as well with Klemmer and what they create in peoples lives as well.

What a crock of …

Dear Dave,

I find your blog very educational and all the negavitve stuff people have posted about this Klemmer workshop is funny. Sounds like they have some emotional bagage and need a therpaist not a workshop and were very angery when the workshop did not magiacally alter their lives. I think I will sign up for it now and if need be pee on the floor so I don't miss out on any of my “brainwashing” I hope the Koolaid is good..LOL

I've been to their opening course and loved it. i'm going to the advanced leadership course in april. this was good to know, because some of my friends have raised the argument that klemmer is a cult.

thanks.

In my course – you weren’t allowed. They made it quite clear when I did go that I was not to go again because “I was distracting the others and taking away from their 10000$ course”

I also wasn’t allowed to drink water

I also can’t help but notice you dismiss my entire post by addressing one issue, not the rest

You are a fool keep wasting your money

vs the “truth” of someone who doesn’t use his or her real name.

LOL

So a person began to adopt six qualities which are listed as group elements? A person is a group? Might need some meds for that.

LOL! An investigation of what, specifically and an investigation of whom?

by the way Dave saunders…you attitude and defensiveness sounds like an “us vs them” mentality. Getting students charged up and asking them to pay more is financial abuse for stuff they dont need. Can you post VERIFIABLE results from the classes or you had a “good time” felt better about yourself??? pretty pathetic..better do more SEO to pay off that credit card debt….

abuse of finances – high pressure cloaked under commitment to keep moving on, upgrading attend leadership…who in the world will follow these paper samurais? who in the world will listen to bible thumping christians afraid of their own shadows? Who has to be a samurai ( who is NOT a christian ) to BE someone? What in the world has happened to common sense?? Klemmer is a cult, dont be in denial and take a different point of view, and WE ARE BEING RESPONSIBLE CONSUMER ADVOCATES for overHYPED, overly simplistic, UNSUSTAINABLE pure energy HIGHS…like a street corner drug peddler….