Klemmer And Associates Advanced Leadership Training

After 5 days of 12 hour days, all I can say is wow.

Hat’s off to Brian Klemmer and the crew. Klemmer and Associates is a class act and the AL program was worth every single penny.

I look forward to the new workshop in February.

For those who believe that Klemmer is some sort of cult, I wrote this post citing the specific criteria of cults. I find it amusing to watch my search logs on this site to see how many people are searching for this.

Since writing this post, I have gone through all of the Klemmer program. Yes, it cost thousands of dollars and yes I would do it again. I did so with eyes wide open. I don’t “staff” the K&A programs as some people do. I enjoyed the entire experience and now I have other things to do.

I don’t believe K&A is for everyone. Some people have a chip on their shoulder the size of Rhode Island and probably need “real” therapy. Other people just aren’t suited for the experience. It’s just the way it is. Some people see something like this as a magic pill and I don’t think it is at all. I had years of significant success going into this. Others have gone into this flat broke and busted in every way and come out like a race horse.

Even Viktor Frankl experienced different people having different results when teaching some of exact same concepts taught at K&A while a prisoner in a WWII concentration camp.

As with all things in life, your mileage may vary.


  1. Rico on August 29, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Man are you gullible.
    My brother is second in command over there snake oil sales central (aka Klemmer and Associates) and he refers to you who attend their LGAT seminars as “sheeple”. I can tell you one thing, he can sell ice to eskimos and sand to Kuwaitis. He and Brian really do love your money though so everyone out there be sure to open those wallets wide.

    • Dave Saunders on September 2, 2009 at 11:35 am

      Hi Rico,

      Thanks for the reply. What’s your brother’s name? I’m sure that there are people who may not benefit from such things. My point was that based on the accepted sociological definition of a cult, it is inaccurate to call Klemmer one.

  2. Rico on September 2, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    You can find his name on the leader board at K&A’s website. I wasn’t commenting on calling it a cult although it is definitely borderline at a minimum. It is more appropriately known as an LGATs. They have divided many families (ours included) , churches and businesses. They are hostile to anyone who reports or questions their honorableness (They tried to have me arrested for extortion when I told my brother to get out of my sons’ pockets. A fact which can be verified by a call to the Petaluma PD) They are heavily connected to law enforcement and use them as their own personal enforcers. I assure you what I say is accurate. I grew up with this guy and he has never been tangibly successful. He has had success when selling things which do not exist. IE self improvement seminars. If you would like to read more about these weasels go to the Rick Ross institute on cult awareness and search Klemmer and Associates to find out more tragedies caused by them. Try to become more informed before you get behind diminutive speach to others who have experienced the terrorist side of K&A.

    • Dave Saunders on September 4, 2009 at 11:06 am

      Funny that you won’t mention his name or your own. The only executive leader on the K&A site listed in BK himself. Also funny that you suggest I’m uninformed without having the slightest knowledge of my background in this area, the study of sociology or personal experience with family members who were roped into cults and my aggressive desire to make sure that never happens again. If this is such old news to you, why are you searching for such terms in Google and looking for pages like this (I can see how you got here from your Richmond area, VA ISP, your repeat visits and the referring URL)? What’s your agenda?

      I’ve read the papers on LGAT’s published in the Annual Review of Psychology and cited the specific, accepted criteria of cults as agreed upon by sociological definition. I’m not posting with a hidden identity. I’m sharing based on my own years of research and personal experience.

  3. Rico on September 4, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Better take another look at that leader board there mr. sword. He’s there, and his name is evident as #2. If I write anything about him by name then Petaluma, CA. PD will be all over me again. Suffice it to say that a year ago he was boasting an engineering degree from cal poly slo (which he never got) and when I outed him for lying about that it got changed. He also says he has 3 kids, another lie. He has one and that’s questionable. The others are loaners.
    You can buy a replica of that sword for about $18 online. Yours cost around $40,000 right? That’s gullible and whomever paid for your anti-cultic education obviously got raped.
    I’m also glad you figured out that I live in Richmond, VA. (NOT EVEN CLOSE) your sleauthing skills are as good as your agressive desire to not get roped into a cult again.
    As to my agenda: My brother has stolen from and divided my family as well as many other families and churches in his quest for the almighty dollar and openly (not in front of you sheeple mind you ) calls you believers: “idiots, morons and suckers” among other things. I am simply out to set the record straight. If yer sluthin’ skills were as sharp as you say then you should be able to identify me and if you do then I will let you know privately if you are correct. But please don’t believe what I say and go give them more money so he can support my mom and dad in luxury in their declining years.

    • Dave Saunders on September 5, 2009 at 9:30 am

      Actually my sword collection began from when I worked in Japan. Again you know nothing about me and yet you issue such statements as though you have a clue.

      I’m looking right at the page now…only one person listed under Executive Leadership. Maybe I’m on the wrong page… About Us -> Leadership.

      Maybe your brother has issues. Does that actually invalidate everything? I have a full accounting of every penny I spent there and I didn’t even come close to $40,000. Even if I did, my eyes were wide open.

      But so far, you’ve issued personal opinions as insults, using an anonymous identity. Trust you? There’s not even the slightest reason to do so. If you’re speaking the truth then you’d have no reason to be worried about doing it from a real identity. Instead, you talk tough from from behind your facade. If you have opinions, you have opinions. That’s cool. But don’t pretend they’re facts when you don’t have the courage to stand behind your convictions as a real person.

      Whatever indeed.

  4. Rico on September 4, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    K and A is out for one thing only: To get your money, your family’s money, your friends’ money, money from people you haven’t met and money from anyone you can con it out of to give them for the next level of their perception of perfection, the sword. Please Dave, stop being defensive about getting ripped off and at least put down that stupid sword, it makes you look silly (no matter how proud of yourself you are that you got it.)
    As to the Google searches: I am constantly on the lookout for places like this where I can respond to you advertisers of K and A to tell people to beware. I know these people and theirs is a snake oil sales platform. You waving around that sword is proof positive. Adults don’t do that except at holloween and yet you are there just making a total ass of yourself with that $40,000.00 sword and proud to do so. And you say that you are not a volunteer for tham. What ever Dave.

  5. Rico on September 5, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Sorry I got you all up in a tither. Really you shouldn’t be so defensive about K and A.
    I do understand now why you chose the K and A cult as your home. The sword for your collection.
    My brother definately has issues and no that doesn’t invalidate the fact that K and A is a snake oil sales company. That you don’t see it as such is only smoke and mirrors advertising (free aka volunteer) for them.
    Keep trying on their website. Perhaps he has been demoted since I have been on their backside exposing the truth about what they are.
    Go to the Rick Ross Institute and search Klemmer and Associates to get a real sample of those who have been run over by them.
    I’m relatively tenacious and won’t be just set aside because you are blindly in love aith K and A. It is important that you at least get objective and quit encouraging just anyone to blindly follow them as you are.
    By the way, you couldn’t have picked a better LGAT, than the Samurai one. It’s the best one for epople with sword collections.

    • Dave Saunders on September 5, 2009 at 12:26 pm

      Based on what criteria do you think I’m in a tither? Also, what exactly am I not being objective about? You’re welcome to your opinions, but so far all you’ve presented is rhetoric from behind the facade of a fake name. And how exactly would they “make me” remove any comments from my site? If I receive a C&D letter, I will certainly post a scan of the actual letter.

  6. Rico on September 5, 2009 at 10:56 am

    One more thing Dave,
    I just want everyone who reads this to know beforehand that Klemmer will make you remove these negative comments about them and you will be required by them to do so. And you will comply. I’d make a nickle bet on it.
    I’ve said enough for a while but I’ll be back from time to time to see how long it takes for you to do K and A’s will. When you do you can bet I’ll call you on it.

  7. Rico on September 5, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Sorry again about your tither Dave,
    and about me being wrong the leader board. He’s nowhere to be found now. All my bad publicity must have made BK take his name off the rolls. Nevertheless He was and I believe still is #2 over there at snake oil central. If you have met any of them over there they will know him. Ask about who #2 is.
    So you’re betting me that nickle? They have their ways to get you to comply with their wishes. As soon as they find out about this you’ll be required to get in line. When you remove these negative posts I will give you my name and address so you can mail my nickle to me.
    My facade is a direct result of their ability to compell. I’m not interested in going to jail so that you can get even for them.
    Is a cease and desist letter what it will take? And how can you cease and desist what someone else is saying? Why is it your responsibility?
    Again go to the Rick Ross institute and search Klemmer and Associates to get a real people perspective on these con-artists. I dare you. It’s not all a rose garden like you are purporting it to be. All I ask is that you make an attempt to be objective by researching BOTH sides and presenting BOTH sides. Fine if you don’t want to believe me but I have stood up and had my legs cut out from under me by doing just that. You are dismissing what I say because I am using a monniker but you will not even consider looking further because you are blindly following K and A. You won’t even give a thought that I might be right because your mind has been closed by K and A. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand instead of looking to see if there is any merit to what I am saying before you just let your tither decide to ignore the obvious for you Dave. This is probably something you’ve never thought of before, Dave, you might be wrong. My family just might have been split by these people. That might be why I’m so fussy about them. What do you think?

    • Dave Saunders on September 5, 2009 at 2:05 pm

      Still no tither around here. Just enjoying a lively conversation while sitting out on the deck with my laptop. It’s a beautiful day outside.

      Never said a C&D letter would make me take down anything. That would be the legal process for them to make the demand that I take down a post. That’s just the tool that would be used. I also said that I would post a scan of that letter if I received it which is obviously not a sign of capitulation.

      I read a lot of Rick’s stuff before I went to the first of the workshops. Most of it is printed and bound because I prefer to read from paper. I’ve also read peer-reviewed papers published in psychology journals which do not agree with him. As I said though, this sort of thing isn’t for everyone. I shared an opinion that I had a good time there. Sorry if that’s threatening to you. Right now the only line I seem to be pressured to get into is yours.

  8. Rico on September 5, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Life in the river. Bye

  9. Rico on September 8, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Dave, I didn’t ask you to see what Rick Ross wrote. I asked you to search Klemmer and Associates on the Rick Ross website to see what other people have experienced, according to you, you didn’t do that. And I don’t think that you read what Rick Ross said either. Actually I think that it is too late for you and you are officially Klemmerized and refuse to have an open mind. Hence the “Life in the river” statement. The river of course being De-NILE. Good luck in you pursuit of more swords to add to your collection.
    It just so happens that I have a unique sword for sale. It belonged to a nigerian prince circa 1232. If you are interested EM me and I’ll sponsor you to get it. No classes are involved however; I just so happen to have some personal betterment classes for sale for $80,000 but for you they are half off. While I am at it I have a bridge just outside of San Francisco for sale. People will pay to cross it. It’s kind of GOLD in color. Call me for the details. I also have a tonic that can help your rhuematiz. While we are having this “lively discussion” perhaps you will advertise my new company: De-Klemmerization techniques for Dummies on your website for free like you are doing for them. By the way how does my brother’s dictate?

    • Dave Saunders on October 13, 2009 at 2:13 pm

      LOL I now see why you won’t use a real name with your posts. I can see at least two blatant and verifiably false statements about goings on at Klemmer and Associates in your comment left at the sfpost article. You might want to look up the word extortion too because I’m not sure you know what that means either.

      Meanwhile, I noticed you started posting your rants on unrelated posts on this site. That’s spam. I have been very accommodating toward you thus far so you may want to reconsider this approach.

      Take care

  10. Rico on October 26, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Why not come out and say which things are verifiable and incorrect instead of just throwing out false accusations? Also what other unrelated posts? I haven’t done any such thing, that is just you trying to defend all the money you spent on that $18 sword.

  11. Rico on October 26, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    I’m not afraid of anything except Klemmer’s ownership of the Petaluma PD and as stupid as the police are, they get lucky every now and again. Why don’t you get a grip? Stop paying these guys for the honor of selling their snake oil for them. Try to get your mind open and do some real research on them instead of just repeating their paid gushers propaganda. If you are so much better now than before Klemmer’s LGATs that you have attended then what do you have to fear by looking at the other side of the coin? Why not provide for another perspective?
    It makes no difference what I think extortion means only what the charges filed against me by my brother (#2 over there at snake oil central) were and that was the charge. Of course the DA didn’t pursue it but that is irrelevant. The cops were complicit and the report was filed with the DA. The actual act that generated the charges was me telling my brother to stay the hell away from my kids or that I would expose him and K and A. A task which I have jumped on with all my heart. I remain anonymous because I have a young family and I don’t need the aggravation of the money and tactics my brother and K an A will spend to keep me quiet.

  12. Ricobebad on October 13, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I’m back,
    Just learned from mom and dad that Steve is still getting paid from Brian Klemmer.
    If you value your hard earned dollars steer clear of these thievs and con artists. They are in it for nothing but your money. Klemmer fired him but is till influenced by him. Remeber that the only thing they want is your money and you will be safe.

  13. burned on November 29, 2010 at 1:33 am

    I see how you banned me Dave. Funny how you censor your blog to have only what you want to be posted on it. How about letting people share the truth about how messed up Klemmer is.

  14. G. Ira Wallace on December 30, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Have to day I attended all of the Klemmer workshops, and it did change my life, for the better.  It did open my eyes.  Is it too expensive … I think so.  With that said, do I regret attending?  Absolutely not.  I still am a witness to both Jesus Christ and Klemmer!  They have both changed my life for the better, and with God’s strength, I will make a difference on this world before my departure. 

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